Evolutionary astrologer Dena DeCastro returns to the show to teach us all about:
What Chiron in Aries means for each of us
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I love having a returning guest/in-house astrologer, and welcoming all other astrologers to come on the show too.
So one of the things that you and I have been doing in these sort of serial conversation is focusing on more evergreen kind of topics in astrology, not the day-to-day transits of what's going on. But the thing that's interesting about Chiron which we're talking about today is it kind of falls in the middle ground, right?
Because it's going to be an effect for this long period of time. It's shifting signs. It's going to be there for seven years so this is one of those things that I feel like we still want to discuss and it will be relevant for several years if people listen to this conversation, right?
Yeah. It's right in that middle ground where this is, when the slower moving bodies, such as Uranus, Neptune or Pluto, which are the outer planets, and Chiron, which happens to orbit between Uranus and Saturn. When those things are moving into a new sign, it will be there for a long time, generally, Pluto being the longest where it could be 15 years-ish in a sign.
So yeah, we're not exactly Evergreen but it's a long time, right?
So for Chiron, it's going to be in total about eight years in Aries, and it dipped in last year, and it's gonna go through 2027, a little in and out at the end, you know, where it goes forward and backward, but...
When was it last year that it dipped in? I'm just curious.
Let's see. It was, I believe, April. I'm going to look at my notes on that, but yeah, I think it was April through September. Yes. Of 2018. And then it retrograded back into Pisces to finish up business there. We can talk a little about that.
And then it moved fully into Aries February of last month. I believe it was the 18th that it moved into Aries.
So I just have to say really quickly, I really didn't know anything about Chiron until very recently. In the last few months when I started seeing all this press about the change into Aries, and people who had Chiron in Pisces were celebrating that something was going to change.
And I've had people talk to me about my chart since I was a little kid and this never came up.
So tell us, first of all, what IS Chiron? As an astronomical body and then astrologically what it is.
So it was first classified as an asteroid and it's orbiting between the asteroid belt and the Kuiper belt is that final belt of objects beyond Pluto. And so it's orbit goes in and out between Uranus' orbit and Saturn's orbit. So it can go a little bit outside of Uranus and come back in and inside of Saturn's orbit and go back out. So it goes between them.
It doesn't have a completely round orbit. It's elliptical and irregular. Therefore it spends a longer time in some signs than others. And it happens to be that Aries and Libra are the two signs that it spends the longest amount of time in. So it's about an eight year time frame that it will be spending in those.
Now it's being classified as possibly a minor planet which could be a combination of, is it a comet or is it a dwarf planet? What is it? But it's basically a small body that regularly orbits the sun, which is now classified as centaur or minor planet. It was discovered in 1977 so it is very new in terms of what astrologers have been looking at and developing theories about and we're still continuing to develop a meaning for what Chiron is.
That's so cool. We think of all this stuff as being so ancient, you know, like Greek astronomers gazing at the sky...
So the idea that modern astrologers are actually incorporating something new into the lexicon is really fascinating. So how does it happen and what do people think it's about and what do you know about it?
Yeah, well like any of the planets that have been discovered in recent history, for example, Uranus, Neptune and Pluto, are new basically to our astrological understanding, relatively speaking. We started with discovery of Uranus in the late 18th century, discovery of Neptune in the mid 19th century, and discovery of Pluto in about 1930.
So this is recent history in terms of the scheme of things.
And so astrologers work to develop some sense of, what does that planet's presence mean in a birth chart? Through experience. Through reality testing. Through looking at a person's chart and seeing how it plays out in their life. So it's a science in that we're correlating data. We're observing data and how it plays out in reality.
So we're doing the same with Chiron. I think it received the moniker, the archetype of the Wounded Healer, as it was named for Chiron, and the myth of Chiron is about a centaur that was born of the mating of Saturn, Kronus, and a nymph named Philyra. So that story is about a being who was born with a deformity, being rejected by his mother. You know, she split the scene when this baby was born. It's a very sad story in its beginnings, but then it works out well in the Greek myth for Chiron because he is adopted by Apollo who's really super cool.
Apollo shares with him all the skills that he has and he becomes then a master healer astrologer himself. Astrology is actually in the myth and a person who then mentors others and teaches others, or being who mentors and teaches others. So he's kind of this half-mortal, half not-mortal being who is brought into the world and has to figure out, like, how am I going to survive? But then he receives some help and mentoring from one of the gods.
So it's a pretty incredible story. And then what astrologers do is they take the synchronicity of that body being named for that Greek myth and say, how then does that shed light on the meaning of this body in a person's chart? And we've done that with all of the planets, from names of the Greek gods or the Roman gods.
So yeah, I mean, and then it's a process, right? It's a process of looking at this over and over again in people's charts. And to be honest, I didn't use Chiron for probably the first 10 years of practicing astrology. And I've been doing it for about 20. And what led me to really looking at it myself and practicing with it in charts is, in my own chart, I saw how it had been and seemed to shed light on my story. And it is prominent on my chart.
And so I think that's a factor too. If it's prominent in a person's chart, then it will have more of an impact as this asteroid or minor body. But as astrologers, we can only really work from experiential, experience and data, to figure out what does this actually mean?
So what's the theme then? What does it bring to our chart or is there a certain part of our life experience that it impacts? Talk a little bit about that.
I believe it has to do with inner child issues, things that happened to us when we were children, that continue to affect us throughout our life. And we may be very aware of those things. But it's like the thing that keeps hanging us up. That insecurity, that feeling of lack, that feeling of less than, that we all carry around, that stems from something in the childhood. Some of us have more or less awareness of what is that, what is that wound? What happened there?
Let's say, for example, someone, one of their parents left when they were a child. Going right back to the Chiron story, they might have abandonment issues, right? And they might be very aware of the cause of that. "My father left when I was three and so therefore I have daddy issues or abandonment issues."
What Chiron can help with is then pointing in a chart to - can you find the healing for that? What is its medicine, by it's sign and house placement? What do you need to go into? What do you need to embrace? What qualities do you need to embody in order to heal from that particular childhood issue. And then use that healing in service. That is part of the healing too. Using that awareness of your own childhood wound in service in some way to others in your life on a broader scale.
Okay, so this is bringing together a lot of threads of stories for me personally, which we'll come back to later on when we talk about the Chiron return. Let's make sure and tell everybody since, for instance, I don't think when you do your chart on astro.com that it lists Chiron as one of the planets and tells you what sign it's in. So if you want to look this up and just find out what your Chiron sign is, how do you find out that information?
Well, for any asteroid or minor body, you can usually find it by typing in that planetary body's name plus the word "ephemeris" or "ephemerides". That will bring up a list of different resources, either to find a table that shows when the planet was where. Or it will go to an ephemeris that shows that. And some people cannot read an ephemeris, so that's a tricky thing.
I do happen to know with Chiron, CafeAstrology has a good signs table for Chiron which is easy to read. It says, here's the date and here's the date it entered Cancer for example and here's the date that it left Cancer and entered Leo. And so you can find, within that list of dates, where your natal Chiron is. So that's fairly easy. You'll put a link to that in the notes.
Absolutely. We'll have links to all these resources so you can look this stuff up, and links to some of your resources as well.
Well this is really interesting because I do kind of see this theme emerging around the whole wounded healer, wounded child archetype stuff. I also had an epiphany about the centaurs in Harry Potter and the magicians.
Oh, the magicians!
Yes! Which are famously healers who studied the stars as well and I assume that that came from mythology but you just tied it all together for me.
I get my mythology through fantasy most of the time.
So what has... for instance, one of the things that brought this to my awareness were all the people who recently were posting on Facebook that they were Chiron in Pisces people and that this was nearing a shift for them. And it seemed as if they were like glad to see this change coming. What is that story about?
Well, and I don't tend to look at things as wholly positive or negative, right? You know that about me by now. As an evolutionary astrologer, I don't think, as my teacher Steve puts it, don't just plug your nose through the transit of something and say, "Oh phew, that's done!"
To work with it consciously and with intention would be the aim, right? I'm not shaming those people because believe me, I've definitely been like, PHEW! after a few Pluto transits in my life. "Glad that's done!"
But Chiron can bring definitely a hyper awareness of that childhood stuff that still haunts us. And if Chiron's in Pisces, then those people who are going through Pisces return in the past several years, right? Which means they were turning 50 at some point in there.
50 is, I would say, already an interesting birthday right, in this culture? I mean, you and I are both turning 50 this year, so we're coming up on Chiron return and we'll talk more about that.
But for those people with Chiron in Pisces, that have just gone through it, maybe there were other challenges in their life as well surrounding turning 50, surrounding all the things that go with being middle aged in this culture.
Plus it was a water sign.
It was a water sign, yeah.
With Pisces, there is already a feeling of heightened sensitivity, vulnerability, deep empathy and perhaps the challenges of Chiron return in Pisces were about feeling things even more deeply which, the past few years would've been a very challenging place to be, for sure. Everything that's going on in this country, lots of processing of deep and intense emotions in general, and then having that heightened awareness of everything that's going on around you, and feeling everybody's feelings, I would guess that that was a challenging sign to have Chiron return in.
And I'm observing that conversation from our peers, people who are already intuitives or spiritual teachers. They're very much involved in their spirituality and healing things, their personal issues. As you said, turning that into something that they do for other people. And predominantly a lot of women in our community.
So I was seeing all this back and forth and I was like, "Gosh, you guys, I'm so sorry. What happened?"
It sounded really intense but it also makes sense why they are kind of having a voice within our community at large, right? Why they're on these Facebook groups talking about the things that they're talking about, it did make a kind of sense.
And I was kind of excited to hear that I have another dose of fire to work with. Because I am a fire sign, I'm a Leo, but I have a lot of Scorpio in my chart. So I kind of feel more like a water sign moving through the world a lot of the times than I do the Leo energy. So to have some Aries coming in somewhere, yeah, bring it on! Sounds good.
Yeah, you and me both. I don't have a lot of fire in my chart at all. I have one fire planet, Mars in Sag and that's it. So I'm like, okay! Good little boost here, some fire energy and then Chiron will be connecting. If you're a fire sign, particularly if you have early fire sign planets, Chiron will be connecting with that via a trine or conjunction. Either one. One or the other.
So it will reconnect you with that fire principle, for sure.
So with Chiron moving into Aries for everyone, what kinds of things does that generally do to the mood and environment and what we're experiencing collectively?
You know, Chiron being in Aries for the collective, it's taking us back to square one in many ways. Aries is the first sign. It is the 'I Am' principle and just being. Absolutely 100% who I am, who I am born as, and Chiron is illuminating the wound that blocks us from being 100% who we are and who we were born as. That's intense, for sure.
I mean, we can say Chiron in Pisces was intense in different ways but there's an intensity to this as well. It has to do with confronting what blocks access from being, 100% accepting and comfortable with who we are. No apologies. That's very Aries energy by the way. No apologies. Not apologizing for who I am, what I'm doing and what I want! And desire. Desire is also a component of Aries.
Chiron is illuminating right now as it moves through Aries, what is blocking us from having what we want? It will show us when we get in our own way, where we let other people get in our way, but the onus of power does come back to us because that's what Aries is about, owning your personal power, your will, your desire, and the direction YOU want to take.
One of the themes I can see coming of that is realizing exactly how we get in our own way, and to remove that tendency to want to blame that person, that situation. There's always an excuse I can make about why I'm not getting to where I want to go.
But ultimately the buck stops with me. And that's a very Aries principle as well.
So owning personal power will be, how to get to that, is through understanding the ways that we let our past, our childhood stuff, our old baggage of childhood, continue to hang us up in our movements toward where we want to go.
And so, as with any transit, there's some inner work involved in figuring that out and healing that.
Well, one of the things that I love about the way you speak about these things, you touched on that idea, it's not always good or bad. You're gonna get a little bit of both with anything in astrology. And one of the things that you like to do with that is say, given that this situation is occurring, or given that we've got these ingredients to work with, how can we make the best of that? What should we be looking to work on? I mean, obviously, childhood issues, things from the past that maybe are still holding us back in some way, making us timid... Am I in the ballpark?
Yeah. I think you cued in on something there with the word 'timid'. That Aries is a sign of bravery and courage. And so we're being, all of us, called to become more brave in some area of our lives, depending on where that Chiron transit is happening. Whether that Chiron be touching a planet in your chart, whether that Chiron be moving through a house, well it will always be moving through a house, but what house is it moving through in your chart?
It's going to point to that area being key and the need for you to develop courage, to be bold, to take steps forward in that area. And also to face the fears that are rooted in something that happened when you were a kid. That's still getting in your way.
Well this is freaking me out because, not to make it all about me...
I love it when you talk about you.
Since it's my show and you're my astrologer, and I've already aired a bunch of laundry that you and I have talked about, the whole thing with some of the romantic stuff going on in my chart right now, which we had a conversation about. That sort of opened some doors for me that I ended up doing this episode a few weeks ago about how I had put this curse on myself when I was younger and I then did a follow up episode with Åsa Poeche about the concept of using shamanic principles to reverse or to retrieve some of those lost pieces.
And so behind the scenes, I mean I'll come back and talk about this on it's own show, but one of the things that I found really quickly after talking to her was that the incidents that I was talking about and speaking about it as if it was the beginning of this curse really weren't. There were other events that led up to them and I started just to sort of jump back in time all the way back to something that happened when I was four.
So I have had this big 'Aha' moment that what I perceived as some kind of issue that I had placed on myself or whatever, was actually something that happened to me at a really early age and I responded to it in such a way that that emotional wound then defined how I defended myself in a lot of areas going forward, that were connected with that.
And then the whole idea of like, why do I feel the impulse to suddenly talk about all this publicly, and one of my reasons intellectually for doing that was, one of the components of a shamanic ritual is to have the tribe present when somebody's being healed. So one of the things we talked about was the fact that this community of people who listen to this show, we're kind of holding that space and so I am actually asking for my community to hold space for me while I heal this. Consequently, hopefully they will get some kind of information that they can use for themselves.
But as you're talking about this idea of bravery, I feel lately, and I mean I'm kind of a brave person in some areas of my life but I do feel this sense of being more brave suddenly about things that are really deep in the closet. Like I've got a whole other layer back into storage now, you know what I mean?
So I'm wondering if maybe that's what I'm experiencing.
And you and I are both going through Chiron return so we can talk a little bit about that and how just Chiron return in general because anybody with Chiron in Aries is going to be experiencing Chiron return some time between now and 2027. So let me just quickly note the dates for that. So Chiron is in Aries from now through to June 19 of 2026. Dips into Taurus for awhile and then comes back into Aries from September 17th, 2026 through June 14th of 2027.
So really about 8 years more, right? With a little dip into Taurus in between.
So Chiron return, it only happens once in your life unless you live to be about 100, which some of us do. But at that point I don't know how much work we'll be doing.
Who cares, at that point.
Yeah. At that point I'm just sipping my margarita on the porch.
At 50 is when most people are experiencing it, either a year either side of that, could be when it starts for you and it lasts about a year and a half to two years. This transit, this Chiron return, it prompts us to revisit the very core wound, okay, of childhood.
So when you say, the thing that happened when you were four, I have a suspicion that that is a key. And interestingly enough, the Chiron glyph looks like a key.
I know. Cool synchronicity, eh? That that's the key to unlocking your courage, your strength, your power, now.
And this is why you're feeling braver, more courageous, more able to take risks. I'm experiencing some of the same. Feeling... and I think this in part comes with being 50 as well, or becoming 50, is you start to care less what other people think. You start to really own that this is just who I am. No apologies, right? Aries energy. No apologies and for better for worse, I may make enemies. I may have people not like me. These are also very Aries themes. I may make enemies.
Not everybody has to like me. And that is so freeing and so healing.
Big time, right? So that's the theme in this Chiron in Aries return.
Would you be comfortable talking about maybe an example of how that's showing up for you? What kind of parts of your life are you seeing that in?
Doing this podcast.
I mean I'm joking a little bit. I mean, doing things like this, putting myself out there and speaking to larger groups of people, because I think the core, one of the core wounds for me was standing out, being made to feel it was not safe to stand out, or to be visible because of themes of my childhood, you know, of having narcissistic parents that made it feel like, no, you're not supposed to stand out. We're supposed to be the show!
So yeah. So that core wound about, I have to blend in, I have to hide my needs, I have to hide my vulnerabilities, that is what I am working through at this time. And what I'm finding is that, there's this voice that's guiding me. I feel like it's one of my guides that's probably overseeing this whole Chiron return for me, that's saying, "You go, you go girl. Do it. Just do it. And it'll be fine. We got you, but you just gotta keep pushing yourself here. I know it's scary. I know it's not fun sometimes, but there will be gains for you on the other side of this."
So yeah. It's writing more. Being in front of people more. Sharing more of what I have to say. And that Chiron in my chart happens to be connected to my Mercury. It's squaring my Mercury so for people who know a little about astrology, natally, it's squaring my Mercury and then by transit, because of this return, it's squaring my Mercury. So it's really the use of the voice for me that's showing up in a big way.
That's so much something that I associate with you too. Both technically, you have great sound and audio. Your sound is always really good and you have a great radio voice and it's something that I definitely associate with your persona. So I love to be one of the people who's like holding your hand and jumping off the cliff with this energy a little bit.
And, you know, I have to say that, the weird thing is that I feel strangely kind of elated by it, even though it's terrifying, and normally maybe if you picked another time period, and you'd come knocking and wanted to talk to me about some of this stuff, I'd be like, I'm not talking to anybody about that. Maybe in a therapy session or something.
But the idea of, there's almost this weird kind of giddy excitement that goes along with being vulnerable in this context. Because, and I appreciate you sharing how that plays out in your life because, I guarantee you, someone else heard what you just said and really identified with it. And that's their story too.
And it's so crazy how you can do something that feels like, well this is really specific to me. And you talk about something so personal and yet people are able to identify with the energy of that and to automatically mirror that in some way and it really touches people emotionally and they have this response to it that, to tell you the truth, I only know that from having blogged for a decade and felt like every time I felt really hesitant about publishing something that was too personal, I always kinda had to grip my teeth and do it, and then feedback that I would see on the other side encourages me that it's probably going to be okay if I do it. Like, I should say yes to that more.
But what is different for me in this moment is I feel a little bit excited about embracing that more.
Yes. Exactly. I think that's the gift and the medicine, that we're feeling the effects of the medicine, basically. We're taking our medicine. We're doing this healing work and it's like, oh, that is bringing a shift in me. And the core of that Aries message itself is really self-acceptance. There's some of that with Pisces as well. Like, accepting oneself as one is, but also embracing with Aries who I am without apology, without caveats, without anything to say, I'm making an excuse for myself.
So yeah. There is a major shift going on for those people with Chiron return happening, and that shift will continue for people with Chiron in Aries for the next several years.
So generally it's a little bit of this energy for everyone, but for the people who are 50, or turning 50 during this period, it's like an intensified front and centre activity in our world right now, right? Am I explaining that right?
That makes sense.
And you know what, it kind of takes me back a little bit to all the solar eclipse stuff that happened in Leo a few years ago, right? Because there was that whole like, Leo-Aquarius message about who am I? What's my light? How am I a star? And then the flip side of that, who's receiving it?
I feel like this is like, in a way, that was a version of this type of work. That was a little bit painful to revisit, or to kind of have laid bare for awhile. Because I am a Leo, and I think it was extra hot for the Leos, but I kind of feel like this is maybe a more active version of that introspective experience. Like I felt like that was a lot of soul searching. Let's just use that term. I did a lot of soul searching about what the hell am I doing here?
And then this feels a little bit more like, "Oh! There's actually something to do, and a way of processing this energy, and on the other side of it, something that's been lingering for a lifetime may have a new role in my life. It may become a source of power as opposed to a source of a hamstring or whatever."
I mean, Chiron in Aries, one of the themes of Aries is taking action, right? So it's about putting those realizations and those insights that you have now into action. It's about doing. And so, for the collective, as well, it's about taking action on the insights and the healing work that you're doing. It's not about keeping it locked away in the 'I'll deal with that later' file. Or I'll think about that later.
It's now time to act. We've all got our marching orders, I think, to use a military metaphor. With Aries' à propos to go forth and do, based on the healing work that we're doing.
How do you think this is going to affect the United States as a nation. Actually there's a lot of nations that are going through identity crisis right now. Do you think this is playing into those stories at all?
Dude, yeah. I was just thinking about that this morning. You read my mind and I was wanting to look at the United States' chart which I'm actually going to do right now. Maybe you could put this chart in the Show Notes as well.
So the United States actually has a natal chart, the Sibley chart. It's cast for July 4, 1776 date, as you know, the birthday of the nation at 5:10pm, which I think was the signing of the declaration of independence, around when they estimate that is. This chart seems to be accurate and where that Chiron in Aries falls in this chart will be, in its entirety, really, in the fourth house of home and family, which is, in terms of a nation, like the homeland, the homeland identity, our connection to each other as a family of Americans. That's what the fourth house represents in terms of the U.S. chart.
So Chiron is illuminating, bringing to the surface, the wounds that are core to our national identity and what we were founded on. 'Foundation' is another word that I would associate with the fourth house. So what that takes me to is, what's the origin story of the United States? We're built out of rebellion. We were built out of seeking our religious freedom and freedom from persecution. We were built on breaking away from an oppressive, tyrannical order as our first forefathers perceived it so that we can have more freedom, right? More independence. Very Aries word. Independence.
So it is bringing up, how do we define ourselves now? Who are we as a family of Americans and what needs to be healed so we can continue to be a family or not? This is what's at stake. It seems pretty big to me. And I'm not just saying that.
If I were to look at this in some alternate universe where Trump wasn't president, which I would want to go live there right now if that were the case...
Yes, me too.
Even if Trump weren't president, I would be looking at this and saying, these are the issues that we're facing next. How can we continue to be a family of Americans? How can we continue with that sense of unity when there are different factions that are wanting to break off and splinter off and be independent and rebel? So we're heading into a, yeah, a rough time. And we've been in a rough time for awhile. There have been other transits in this chart that have awoken the beast, so to speak.
This is so interesting. We should do a whole show about "America - the Chart" at some point.
Without going too far down that road, we'll save some of that conversation, but it occurs to me that the childhood wound for the foundation of the United States was slavery. It was a big wound, the whole concept of "all men are created equal" blahblahblah, which we have seen repeatedly bubbling up and coming to light over and over again, and the whole idea of nationalism versus being the melting pot. There's a lot of mixed messages in America's identity that are playing out right now in a very...
Yeah, so... Well that's an idea for our next show! Maybe we'll do that for summer when it's like, near the birthday of the United States.
That sounds great, yeah. I could look at all the transits for the United States. It'd be a good check in.
Let's do that.
Alright, so just to let everyone know, we've got some resources. You've already written and prepared some articles on your blog, two links that I'm going to put in the Show Notes. Tell everybody what those are.
Great. So the first one is a post about Chiron in Aries just in general for the collective. So, what does it mean? The symbolism of Chiron in Aries, and in that post, I also share a personal story about my having Chiron in Aries natally to illustrate what that energy might be like for the collective.
And then in the following post, it's specifically about Chiron in Aries as its affecting each sun sign, so if you know your sun sign, you can get some good information about how is this time of Chiron in Aries going to be affecting you personally as that sun sign?
So that kind of astrology, sun sign astrology, it can be somewhat specific but not entirely specific. So of course, if you really want to know how Chiron is laying in your person chart, definitely feel free to reach out to me for a reading, or to another astrologer for a reading, because you really need that specificity of birth time in the chart to know where it is by house and by aspect to your natal planets.
But hopefully in that post, there's some good information for you in terms of your sun sign as it's affected by this.
Everybody can go to DenaDeCastro.com if they want to get a reading with you and we'll put those longer, more specific links specifically to those articles in the Show Notes and they'll also be on my blog and I think I shared them on Facebook as well if anybody has recently seen those.
Dena, thank you so much. This was a really cool conversation.
Thank you, Slade. As always, it was totally my pleasure.
…there’s an Oracle message at the end of the audio episode…